Driver's Licence Revoked

hi i need help and i dont know what to do my drivers license been revoked after my car been stolen i lost the freedom to go work i use to live in back contry of maple ridge icbc didnt want to cancel my insurance didnt want insure me another car i lost my dwelling fault of income i lost my job and today i try to get out of bc because i have a better oppotunity in alberta and wonder if i can get my drivers license overthere what are my best option can you help?

How many people drive without a driver's license?

I bet many do, they either drive their own vehicle or a family member when their license is suspended or revoked. It's pretty hard to find these people if they don't attract any attention when driving.

Please consider my nickname

Dear Competent,

Bless your heart and count your blessings.
A well fed man will never trully understand a hungry person.
Let's not mix the physical reality with your understanding of your social norms.

You did, however, 'inform' the OP that he could drive without a license; not in so many words, you said that "Driving with no license is a liability which has to be considered carefully."  This implies that doing so may be a viable option, but frankly it shouldn't be considered at all by the OP or anyone else, given the risk to themselves and others.  Hell, it's a viable option for an 11-year old with long legs and a set of car keys, but would you present the idea to them, or consider it carefully?

Anyone with 1 leg, 1 arm and half a brain can physically drive a motor vehicle. Accusing me of opening the eyes of somebody to something obvious is a weak point. When they are standing there with keys in hand and a paycheque 20 miles away, the lack of a thin plastic card is not a physical deterrent. It is self-evident that a driver's license is not a requirement to operate a motor vehicle, and stating it so, is only an offence of the "captain obvious" nature.  

I learned to drive exactly when I was 11 years old from my great uncle, who drove a tank from Stalingrad to Berlin when he was 17-21. I regard that early learning experience as the primary reason why I have inerest in driving and have yet to cause an accident. It didn't take place on public roads though, and not in Canada. And yes I would present the idea to an 11 year old, so they could be competing in F1 by age of 15 then. Obviously on a closed track and obviously with safety precautions, but again your point of age is also a weak one, as GoKarting is the stepping stone for 11 year olds to get into Motor Sports. And there are drivers as young as 14 competing in the Pirelli World Challenge right now!

Back to the point:

Risks of driving with no license

Getting pulled over:
Ticket ~$168
Tow ~$170
Impound ~$300

If the vehicle is in the driver's name, they won't be able to take the vehicle out without a license (easily),
so they might also have to surrender their vehicle to the tow yard in lieu of the storage fees. Tow yards will gladly offer a form for the owner to fill out and sign - it's one of their income producing venues.
So you would lose your vehicle.
Well gee, how many cars are there on CL in driveable condition under $500?
(7 posted today)

Getting pulled over again:
Same risk
+ Longer impound => Higher fees ^See above Re:form
+ Potential to be prohibited from driving (or at least the process will start)

Getting pulled over while prohibited from driving:
All of the above
+ Arrest
+ Potential jailtime (or at least the process will start)

Now consider how many times have YOU been pulled over with a license check in the last 3 years?
Chance are - none.

Getting into an accident driving with no license or while prohibited:

No ICBC insurance coverage for YOU.

Other driver fault:
ICBC provides no coverage to you, and will expect you to pay for the other party's damages.
They can expect all they want, but if you sue them and the other driver, the court will have the final say.
If there is good evidence of the other party's fault, ICBC's corporate policies have no binding on the courts.

Unlicensed driver's fault:
ICBC is likely to sue immediately, and if the driver is able to pay, they will happily take the money, otherwise it's forced bankruptcy. (Bankruptcy is also a really negative reflection on person's credit; *which I'm sure a person making a choice to drive with no license regards as one of their top priorities* sarcasm)
+ Ticket ;)
The other party will be reimbursed by ICBC through the under-insured motorist protection.
 If you get into an accident with an unlicensed driver, your experience with ICBC re:claim will not be much different than every other fully insured accident.

Can you think of any other immediate risks? Or anything that is not true?

 

And you did also put the idea out there for the OP (and others who read this site) that he could potentially have a license in another last name; although without quite crossing the line into counselling fraud, which is how the courts might see it.

I am not going to apologize for stating the truth. This information is privy to me because I have good reasons to belive that this is what one of my prior acquaintance did, and bragged to me about. It involved BC and Alberta, and happened about 15 years ago. The circumstances did not involve prohibition, rather a steep surcharge due to the insurance claims that were judged at fault against my acquaintance.

 

Unless I'm mistaken, this led you to your statement that "ICBC's power to withhold drivers license in relation to them holding a commercial debt against them is despicable. It is the single most abhorrent highlight of the conflict of interest this institution is positioned on top of."

First off, let's be clear about this: ICBC do not have the power or authority to revoke anybody's Driver License on the basis of commercial indebtedness. One can be a vehicle owner, and insurer, in BC without any requirement that you hold a Driver License. Companies do it. Rich buggers with chauffeurs do it. Separate issue.

If our OP had his Driver License revoked (and I don't doubt that this may have happened) then there is some underlying issue that he hasn't presented here. Would be good if he was to enlighten us with some truth behind this.

Please reread the quote you are disputing:
Revoke and withhold are two different terms.
And although the OP refers to it as Revoked or Cancelled, I referred to it as withheld in a sense of renewal.
I know that ICBC is not yet able to pull your license if you owe them insurance money. But they sure as heck will not be renewing it, unless the debt is paid or is written off. 

Also, sitting down to make a deal, when somebody wants thousands of dollars for services not provided, and the debt being due only because of the "Agreement" terms (and in lieu of the lack of any other sort of available Agreements with better terms), is a humiliating experience.
They are morally entitled to their cancellation fee, and the insurance coverage up to the notice of cancellation.
The fact that you HAVE TO come up with a symbolic (from their perspective) amount of money at a time when you are already in deep financial peril is ABHORRENT.
 

Kind of like if you defaulted on your car loan with the bank - they probably wouldn't be prepared to provide you a mortgage on your house. Not despicable at all - it's business.

It is not at ALL like a bank denying more credit because of prior defaults.  

It is like:

The only grocery store in town, arranged the ruling government to require all shoppers to carry a time-limited shoppers license, and to appoint that grocery store the issuer of such time-limited licenses.

Then the grocery store requires its shoppers to pay an exorbitant annual premium to be allowed to use carts or baskets. Premium can be paid in full or they will conveniently "finance" the charge into 6 month of 12 month payment plans only.

When a shopper notifies the store that they would like to cancel their monthly plan, because the shopper wants to use their hands, the store requires cancellations fees, shopper is unable to pay, and misses two payments, the store now deems that the shopper opted in to payout of the entire plan, and it becomes due.

And finally when the time-limited shopping license runs out, the store refuses to issue a renewal, and demands that the shopper stop shopping, or face extra penalties and expenses.

Sounds ridiculous right?

P.S. I suppose DriveSmart can rule on the risks of having this information public by closing this topic.
P.P.S. I did not want to post these details yesterday as is evidenced by an atypical (for me) 2 line reply above.
 
Outrageous

Question

Why was your driver's licence revoked and for how long?

Reply from E-mail

i entered an icbc payment plan Agreement to finance my insurance. i purchase basic insurance coverage. and the vehicle was stolen from surrey.and been recovered by the police on and tow the car to unitow. i ask my to cancel my insurance and they ask me to provide the from the car plate but the car is impounded at tow yard upon i could pay to get the out it was up to 300$ any success i could find a new job or money so icbc decide to charge me the whole insurance 1600$
in a meanwhile they debit another payment through my bank account 206$ so my account went -206$ plus 45$ nsf fee from the bank i couldn't believe it they will keep there payment so i went to ask my broke cause she was requesting fee to cancel my insurance but upon then i was tap out 0$ no more work mean $ i told her technically icbc as to reimburse any money from payment refer by the RCMP file number so icbc was a payment ahead i ask my broker to keep the 200$ and cancel my insurance and they said no overall i got my car stolen my carpentry tools with i need to win my income with so bottom line i was f.... i try everything with icbc an refer by their ethic code nothing was helpful no right to insure a new car or try to help me to pursuit a regular life as work pay bill and go home (figure speaking) so today i lost my dwelling and way more into this adventure i couldn't never to pay them back my rent was 1800$ plus utilities and need to provide food living out of town in remote area so i feel they decide to shut me down icbc as no moral sense in this case and today decide to leave bc to go work in alberta but they revoke my drivers license and i don't believe they will cooperate with  alberta registry as a carpenter its hard to have a job without licence driver what should i do they request almost 4000$ i have no credit and no familly to support me and i always be on my own so today i try hard to get my life together...   

Another Question

Please tell me if I have guessed correctly. ICBC has cancelled your driver's licence because they think that you owe them money and haven't paid.

Reply from E-mail

that's correct they said i have to repaid my whole policy and every time i did try to take arrangement with them they were choosing there own way to make me paid within 30 days i told them its a non sense first they don't want to insure me a new car and according to my budget i can't paid by there term lack of income my dwelling was in line and all around along all those years i starve, i try to keep the little i got left as my furniture and whats around,  but they don't care at all and when she decide to take action to cancel my drivers licence be honest with you i was tired and overwhelm mentally and told her she was poor immoral person and end up the phone with "b" word maybe that's why it turn as conflict of interest i don't know.

i got tired i decide to meet an rcmp office concern all of this and and he told i will look at after but  surprising into my luck 2 weeks after this officer was doing the front page of the local news paper and been arrested for fraud i couldn't believe it i just give up tired to fight every have been take been useless and morally im beat up living alone out everything his too far to poor to deal with this situation when you out resources.

anyway its part of my encounter with icbc

Answer

ICBC may choose to refuse to issue a driver's licence or vehicle licence and number plates to anyone who owes them money from a motor vehicle related debt. The authority is contained in Section 26 of the Motor Vehicle Act and reads in part:

Refusal to issue a licence, permit, etc.

26  (1) The Insurance Corporation of British Columbia may, without a hearing, refuse to issue a driver's licence to a person who

(b) is indebted to the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia for any motor vehicle indebtedness,

(2) The Insurance Corporation of British Columbia may refuse to issue a licence and corresponding number plates for a motor vehicle or trailer or both owned by a person and any permit to a person who

(b) is indebted to the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia for any motor vehicle indebtedness,

As in your case, this is a major problem for someone in debt. You need your vehicle to earn money, but you can't drive legally because you owe money to ICBC. Should you choose to drive illegally, the consequences will cause even more problems if you are stopped by police or involved in a collision.

I am not an authority on what the licensing authorities in other provinces might or might not do, so I went to the Service Alberta web site pages for Drivers and Motor Vehicles. I was unable to find anything except information on which out of province licences would be accepted in direct exchange for an Alberta licence. You can visit their Contact Us Page to request information directly.

I know that if you are prohibited or suspended from driving in another jurisdiction the provinces will refuse to issue you a driver's licence. Since this appears to be a debt issue and a refusal to issue rather than a suspension or prohibition, it is possible that you might be able to be licenced there. Ask to be sure.

I hear you brother

ICBC does want the full policy worth if you miss two payments, despite the fact that your car was stolen (or sent to the junk yard).
And yes the Autoplan brokers want a cancellation fee to prevent the entire policy from being charged (and no they don't accept payments in flesh)

 

So realistically, if you cannot pay ICBC, you are screwed for 7 years - statutory debt period in BC, after which they will "so graciously write off your debt, you plebe".

Driving with no license is a liability which has to be considered carefully. (If you get caught once your vehicle is towed, tow yard requires license = better sign over the vehicle to them ASAP before they want thousands for storage charges)
(Oh and if you get into an accident, any accident, regardless of fault, get ready to sue or to file bankruptcy immediately)
(And the final oh - third time getting caught = prohibition, next time getting caught = potential jail time)

ICBC's power to withhold driver's license in relation to them holding a commercial debt against you is despicable.
It is the single most abhorrent highlight of the conflict of interest this institution is positioned on top of.

Good luck in Alberta - their licensing won't have anything to do with the commercial debt of the ICБC.
If you get it issued in another last name (mother's maiden name if its on your birth certificate) you could reuse it in BC as a "brand new person" (although against the law(s) I'm certain, but people have done it)

Otherwise, come back to BC in 7 years. Don't forget to bring cash.

That's a questionable recommendation ...

... that thing about using a 'different; name to obtain a license in Alberta.  I would want to look very, very carefully at the legislation governing this.  If it is legal then he will have to commence as a new driver is my guess, completing Knowledge and Practical tests, etc.  But I doubt if it's legal; there's specific law in place to prevent drivers from simultaneously holding licenses in separate jurisictions.

And I wouldn't advocate that anybody drive without a license, because that probably means they don't have insurance either, which could result in the ruination of more than one person's life.

That said, as you point out, it may be possible to go to Alberta or another provincial jurisdiction and obtain a license there on the strength of holding a valid BC license, and regardless of indebitness to ICBC.  The BC license may even be recently expired, but I'm not certain about this, I would check with the Alberta authorities.

Just my 2 cents' worth.

 

Informing, not recommending

Where in my post did I say "Recommend"?

Just informing.

You are correct ...

... you did not 'recommend' that the OP take any particular action - my apologies.

You did, however, 'inform' the OP that he could drive without a license; not in so many words, you said that "Driving with no license is a liability which has to be considered carefully."  This implies that doing so may be a viable option, but frankly it shouldn't be considered at all by the OP or anyone else, given the risk to themselves and others.  Hell, it's a viable option for an 11-year old with long legs and a set of car keys, but would you present the idea to them, or consider it carefully?

And you did also put the idea out there for the OP (and others who read this site) that he could potentially have a license in another last name; although without quite crossing the line into counselling fraud, which is how the courts might see it.

I can only wonder why you would do this.

I can only wonder why you wouldn't suggest that he make an appointment with ICBC to sit down with a representative, and have them advise of his options.  They're not averse to 'making a deal' with people who owe them money, particularly if it will help them to avoid fighting a lawsuit; and they surely realize that their interest rates might be considered usurious.

But let's go back to the beginning of this dialogue, where the anonymous OP via our site host seemed to imply that his Driver's License had been revoked as a consequence of his failure to maintain his insurance payments according to the legal contract he had made with them.

Unless I'm mistaken, this led you to your statement that "ICBC's power to withold drivers license in relation to them holding a commercial debt against them is despicable.  It is the single most abhorrent highlight of the conflict of interest this institution is positioned on top of."

First off, let's be clear about this: ICBC do not have the power or authority to revoke anybody's Driver License on the basis of commercial indebtedness.  One can be a vehicle owner, and insurer, in BC without any requirement that you hold a Driver License.  Companies do it.  Rich buggers with chauffeurs do it.  Separate issue.

If our OP had his Driver License revoked (and I don't doubt that this may have happened) then there is some underlying issue that he hasn't presented here.  Would be good if he was to enlighten us with some truth behind this.

It is however correct (abhorrent? matter of opinion, worthy of discussion as a separate topic perhaps) that ICBC will refuse to provide services such as license renewal to individuals who are in debt to them, unless an acceptable financial arrangement has been made to settle that debt.

Kind of like if you defaulted on your car loan with the bank - they probably wouldn't be prepared to provide you a mortgage on your house.  Not despicable at all - it's business.

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