Q&A - Ticketed for Failing to Yield to Pedestrians
Had a nice policeman come talk to me today and give me a violation ticket for driving without consideration 144 (1)(b). The offence allegedly happened over 2 months ago in another town 4 hours north of me.
The officer providing the ticket in person states that the violation explanation is very vague and doesnt understand what i specifically am being charged with. I called the officer long distance who is the enforcement officer handling this. He's not at work this week. The dispatch/reception explained he was chargung me with almost hitting a child on a crosswalk while making a left turn.
Heres the scenario: i was going through an intersection off a major hwy turning left. There is no advanced turn here. I proceeded with caution lots of oncoming traffic at that time.
While waiting to make my turn safely i noticed a large group of children with a caregiver walking towards the crosswalk although not to it yet. Still waiting for oncoming cars. I get a break in traffic to make the turn and as i am turning the womans kids ran in front on me but onto the crosswalk. She stopped them and i slammed on my brakes at the same time.
After i stopped she crossed the road with the children. Their pedestrian light was not signalling to walk they did not even push the button.
I was making the remainder of my left turn on a yellow light for me as i was trapped in the intersection about to turn red. Did not stop on the crosswalk but rather before it in the oncoming lane.
Where the crosswalk comes up there is a hill on that side and it makes it hard to see kids run up until they are in front of you. I was aware of this as i saw them walking towards the crosswalk.
My question is why this charge? Why would an officer not issue a ticket when the incident happened?
I have never had a parking ticket, speeding ticket or any situation involving the rcmp. Heck i've never even been in a fender bender in the 12 years of driving i have a completely clean record?
I do not understand how i'm being fined with such a serious offence when i feel i was making the turn appropriately being green for me and no go for the pedestrian.
I'm worried about the dispute process. 6 points against me for a 1st offence that involved no damage to anyone or any property thank goodness. I'm concerned how this will impact my future as my husband works away for months at a time and my entire career involves having a squeaky clean criminal and driving record.
Any advice or insight into this is appreciated. I searched through the forum but did not find anything involving pedestrians. I'm in shock right now and looking at what my options are. I cannot afford to have the points as any prevents me from being employed.. Thank you in advance for taking the time to respond
Were the police involved at
Were the police involved at all at the time of the incident?
This happened 2 months ago
This happened 2 months ago and i just had the officer come a couple days ago to issue violation. No rcmp at the time, was not pulled over..heck i didnt even know i broke any law until 2 days ago :/
Receiving a traffic ticket months later based on a third-party complain is highly unusual.
Your odds of successful defence in traffic court increase when the officer has no direct evidence.
If conviction swings on a public complaint and not direct observation by the officer, traffic camera images etc., then aspects of hearsay and witness credulity come into play.
The person providing evidence of wrong doing should generally need to be present, if not to provide testimony, then to answer cross-examination. It's not likely such a witness would be presented. Third-party testimony does not carry the same weight as it does not receive the same presumption of being expert or bias-free as would testimony from an trained Officer without personal interest in outcome.
If it's your word against an officer's, you're pretty much doomed. If it's your word against the word of someone off the street and not present, things look a lot better.
That said, it seems you don't live anywhere near where the alleged offence took place (Chetywnd) or where a court date would be set (Dawson Creek).
If so, sometimes, it's more practical to accept guilt than plead innocence.
'Sometimes' ... 'more practical' ...
You may well be correct in your last paragraph. But this isn't applicable here. Consider what she said:
No doubt in my mind, Candice needs to have this one settled in front of a JP.
Section 144 was written to deal with selfish, anti-social, dangerous behaviour; something worse than simply breaking one of the rules of the road, whether deliberately or inadvertently.
The nice RCMP officer who delivered the ticket probably isn't aware of the actual facts, never mind the repurcussions.
Hopefully Candice will receive the best counsel on how to deal with this; taking the time to Search the information our site host has already provided in this place will definitely aid her more than suggesting that she accept guilt for something she didn't actually do.
Would you consider telling us where this particular intersection is?
So long as you've entered the intersection, it doesn't matter what colour the light is.
Traffic Light's don't control traffic in intersections; they control traffic approaching intersections. So all a driver has to do is exit once there are no futher conflicts - such as oncoming traffic, or pedestrians in the path of the vehicle.
The wise thing to do is to wait with your front wheels and vehicle pointed straight (in case you're hit from behind) and then leave as soon as you can do so safely. Even if the light has gone red, and cross-traffic is now facing a green, they can't enter the intersection until it's clear, per Section 127(1)(a)(iii).
From what you've told us, a ticket under Section 181 might have been more reasonable than Section 144. Particularly if no police or independent witnesses were there at the time.
I was at the main
I was at the main intersecrion in chetwynd b.c.
Not familiar with the road name as i was just passing through town. I made the left turn heading towards a&w heading from the gas station/tim hortons drive thru. So i was on the intersection facing hudson hope direction turning left to prince george direction if that makes sense?
I do not know if police were
I do not know if police were present or not. I was not pulled over at all. I contacted chetwynd rcmp but the officer who issued the violation has not returned my call to provide disclosure as of yet.
My assumption from speaking
My assumption from speaking to a lawyer this afternoon is a complaint was called in.
I do not know if a witness is involved etc.
Thank you for your responses. If i was violating the section you mentioned, what sort of punishment would i be facing potentially?
I am disputing this violation and will have to represent myself. I have to travel to chetwynd with my children for the hearing. I have no family supports and hubby works out of town 2 months at a time. Cant afford a lawyer but dont qualify for legal aid etc..
Thank you all for the help on this!
Third party tickets
Those are quite the rodeo when it comes down to it. Once at trial, the person who witnessed the offence must be present, obviously. And also the officer that served you the violation ticket in person which is from your town. The likelihood that the officer that serves you the ticket is authorized to drive 4 hours out of town, basiclly wasting a full day incuding costs and what not, to dispute this one violation ticket is pretty slim.
Also, as adamant witnesses are to go to court at the very time the offences occur, this sometimes changes 15 months later when it's time to go to court
Alright so I finally got a letter in the mail today from chetwynd rcmp. I had a call from the rcmp officer issuing the ticket on october 30th. He stated that i would get disclocure in the mail within the week and would not discuss anything over the phone other than to state that I would have to go to chetwynd to appear.
I STILL HAVE NO DISCLOSURE
The letter in the mail states that I need to send rcmp in chetwynd a copy of the notice of dispute before they will give me ANY informtion. As of today (4 months after the incident alledgedly happened), I still do not know the circumstances regarding the violation. I sent a letter to rcmp requesting disclosure in the beginning of october...
Is this the usual? It was my understaning when I filed the notice at prince george courthouse that this was the last step. I was unaware of having to send them a copy of the dispute?
I just want to make sure I should not have any more suprises to expect besides my day in court..
this is getting out of hand going on almost 4 months since the violation and I still do not know what I did wrong :(
Sounds Obstructionist to Me
Why they would not be happy to send disclosure to the person named in the ticket at the address shown on the ticket I cannot say. I'm also a bit disappointed that they won't discuss it with you over the telephone either, but I can understand a reluctance to disclose details to someone that they cannot confirm is you.
At this point, you can do two things: send them a copy of the notice of dispute or make a complaint about the response or both.
Although it is frustrating for you, likely sending the copy that they want will get disclosure to you more quickly than if you do anything else.
And no, you don't have to go to Chetwynd to dispute, you could hire a lawyer to do it for you. If you are curious about that, I would recommend Lawyer Referral to you for inexpensive advice.
Interesting! Yes I am
Yes I am photocopying the dispute today and sending it directly to them.
Ifeel as though if I keep doing everything right and in a very timely fashion, that this could go in my favor. At this point I have spoken to a lawyer, and have tried every avenue of legal advice. No lawyer will go to chetwynd to represent me over a 196 dollar fine. The lawyer in Dawson Creek I was sent to is unable to assist over "something so trivial" . At this point I have no other option than to get a babysitter and drive up north to represent myself. Any advice? Husband makes too much for legal aid and there is no legal aid for traffic court so I am told...