Is Slow Driving Unacceptable?

Slow DriverArgh! The driver in front of me is not doing the speed limit! Yes, I’ll admit that I often feel the this way, even when the speed differential is as low as 5 to 10 km/h. I have to tell myself to relax and follow along until there is a safe opportunity to pass by or even be satisfied with reducing my own speed to match and not worrying about it. The trouble is, that only works if you don’t have a schedule to keep and in some circumstances slow driving can be dangerous.

We seem to behave as if the speed signs are labelled minimum or exactly instead of maximum. If you aren’t doing at least the maximum speed, either get out of the way or get off of the highway. Perhaps the only place a lower speed might be somewhat tolerable is when the slow driver is using the right lane of a multiple lane highway.

Speaking from the point of view of the traffic laws, exceeding the posted speed limit is illegal. Driving at a speed less than the speed limit is not, as long as there is a good reason for doing so and the reduced speed is a reasonable one.

If the speed is unreasonable, police action may be taken by either requiring the driver to increase speed or by removing the vehicle from the road until the officer directs otherwise.

A responsible slow driver will monitor traffic in the rear view mirror and move out of the way to let others by. This is both polite and keeps safety in mind. If you obstruct an irresponsible driver you could easily provoke irrational or unsafe behaviour that results in a collision.

I’ve been told in past that “everyone knows that the police won’t write a speeding ticket for 10 over.” Observing the traffic around me when I drive, many seem to have adopted this as their personal speed limit. So, if at least 10 over is acceptable, why is at least 10 under not?

When I did speed enforcement, if I allowed the same tolerance under the speed limit as I did for those exceeding it and kept the advisory speed signs in mind, I constantly found drivers outside the upper limit but rarely found drivers under the lower limit.

Complaints about slow drivers usually come from people who are experienced drivers and comfortable with their vehicle’s operation. While they do make up the majority of road users, there are beginners of all ages and drivers who are ageing or suffer from health impairments who self limit their speed in order to be safe. We cannot expect the latter group to speed up to keep the former happy. They are licenced therefore entitled to use the highways within the law too.

Some single and combination vehicles are not powerful enough or designed to keep up to the posted speed limits. In fact, if the vehicle is capable of at least 60 km/h on level ground, it is able to use freeways posted at 120 km/h.

If you are a slow driver and have a collection of followers, remain at the slower speed and allow them to pass by when you reach a section of passing lane. If there is no passing lane and an area to pull over is available, use it. Remember to keep right on multiple laned highways. If you are a faster driver, don’t be a bulldozer and intimidate the slower driver hoping to pass. Being responsible keeps us all safe.

Reference Link:

Comments

driving the limit

For many years now, Iv'e been driving the limit or limit plus 10 to keep people off my bumper. I drive defensively, leave early and anticipate delays if going to an appointment or catching a Ferry. I have been accident free for over 50 years-driving the limit works for me.

I'm no angel- I have owned fast cars,still do. I 've been lucky, but I did get one speeding ticket in my 50 plus years of driving. I suggest that those with multiple tickets, take risks regularly-like the lady with the 14 distracted driving tickets.They should not be on the road.

Being accident free involves of lot of good  luck, but if every driver followed the rules of the road , there would be few accidents and injuries.

I'm Less Impatient

I am now 75, and still get impatient with slow drivers, but less often than I used to. When I am driving on a twisty and/or hilly two-lane, I find myself keeping to a speed that is comfortable, usually close to the posted limit, sometimes a bit over.  However, I now notice that going even 5 km/h over my comfort speed starts making me nervous. I fully understand those folks now (My dad used to call them "Hats", because they always seemed to be wearing them - never ball caps, mind you), and am now aware that they are at their comfort speed, and I just have to respect that Frustrating, but understandable.

Have you ever noticed....

Have you ever noticed.... Anybody going slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
 

Courtesy to let others pass

At 76 I still normally travel above the speed limit conditions permitting. My present car cruises nicely at 120 which is where I usually travel. With 60 legal years of driving and a few underage I am still accident free.

What bothers me is the attitude of the majority of the drivers driving under the limit. I am sure the older members of this forum especially if you lived out of the lower mainland remember when you caught up to a slower moving driver they would pull over the fog line on the road to let you pass ASAP. Today I no longer see that.

In addition when one does hit a passing lane that same driver traveling 30 and 40K under the limit on the 2 lane stretch immediately speeds up to where they are actually traveling above the posted limit only to slam on the brakes as soon as the passing lane ends. Lots of times no one gets by as you have to hit the impound limit to do so. This is what annoys me.

I would love to see the cops this July 1st. weekend out there at the start of the passing lane checking the speed of the lead car and then check that same car again half way to see if they have increased speed. If they have charge them with something like undue care and attention. Something that will give them 6 points rather than the normal 3 points for speeding.

I have no problem with people traveling at any speed just be courteous and let traffic by. That is what annoys me, not the speed they are going.

 

Agreed.

I would love to see the cops this July 1st. weekend out there at the start of the passing lane checking the speed of the lead car and then check that same car again half way to see if they have increased speed. If they have charge them with something like undue care and attention. Something that will give them 6 points rather than the normal 3 points for speeding.

I have my doubts about the police being able to issue a 6-demerit ticket under Section 144.

But Section 151(g) is specific about lane use these days, and does not concern itself with how fast a driver may be travelling.

And hey, what about Section 157(2)(b)?  All the driver who is intending to overtake needs to do is tap the horn politely as a warning. Cops in BC appear to be handing that one out an average of ... 7 times each year. Hmmm.

Speeding and discounts on insurance

I was told one time that ICBC were going to raise the insurance for people caught speeding. Apparently what brought this about was that many of the high discount drivers actually had speeding tickets. Is there any truth to this?

Little embarassing saying speeding is a major cause of accidents when you are giving discounts to many of them.

In my own case ever since ICBC started giving discounts for accident free driving I have received the maximum discount although there has been times when I have had one speeding ticket in the previous year and one occasion when I had two.

Phil

Accident Prevention is a complex "science".Many different approaches in our Country but most who are sucessfull have follow up on their policies, rules and laws. Today there are so many issues for policing that drivers are left mainly on their own on roads and there are growing number of drivers to try to follow up.. It would seem that electronic monitoring would help with the issue of excessive speed for conditions.Start with 40 over the limit.

I'm encouraged by a radio add today saying the RCMP will be on the road 365 days a year looking for agressive , impaired and distracted drivers.

Not unacceptable, but......

A couple of things.

I think you are not driving in Vancouver.  I am constantly behind cars doing 12 to 15 km/h less than the speed limit....  For no apparent reason..  It appears to be another example of drivers not paying attention and/or not caring.

Secondly, although, sometimes there are reasons to go slower than the speed limit,  I believe that if the reason is that you are not capable of doing so,  you really need to evaluate whether you should be driving.

We're controlling a ton or two of mass going down the road.  That deserves some thought and respect....

Slow driving seems to be the speed limit

I don't speed and the majority of drivers seem to think that 10 km/hr or more over is just fine, well it's very simply breaking the law, like it or not. If you want to break the law and risk tickets that's your choice and I believe you should be ticketed, as your creating a speed differential which causes crashes, yes even 10 km/hr over, you are forcing the law biding drivers and yourselves to make more decisions, the more decisions humans have to make the greater risk of mistakes happening, that's what most speeders refuse to acknowledge.

The other problem with thinking 10 km\hr over the limit is fine is when speeders catch up to the safe law biding driver they think it's their god given right to tailgate the safe driver to try and speed them up, so driving 5 to 10 km/hr under the limit which is also perfectly legal seems to get the blood boiling of the speeders even more than the speed limit, once their blood is boiling they no longer think straight and now besides being mad at the safe driver, they blame the safe driver for being a #@^&*(*&, and tailgate even closer. They go from being a bad driver to a dangerous driver, and worse yet they believe they are the good driver this whole time when nothing could be farther from the truth.

Now if you tailgate me doing the speed limit (which happens every time I drive) the road conditions are no longer ideal, and as the Maximum posted speed is for ideal conditions you actually force me now to slow down, this will lessen the damage caused should a crash occur, of course if a string now starts forming behind me I will try speeding back up to the posted limit or find a safe place to pull over and let the BAD drivers by me, but I even get tailgated driving in the right lane and have never in multi millions of kms seen even one tailgater in BC, or Canada or USA get a ticket even though they are dangerous drivers. At least on the autobahn tailgaters are ticketed and acknowledged as dangerous drivers, I wish BC, Canada & USA would follow suit. Automated traffic enforcement, speed/distance cameras could also be used to ticket tailgater as well as speeders, the roads would become safer for all drivers before long.

Passing lanes

James is annoyed with drivers "traveling 30 and 40K under the limit on the 2 lane stretch" who speed up beyond the limit when they reach a passing lane. In 35 years of driving in BC I have never seen anyone doing this, e.g. driving at 40 to 50 km/hr on an 80 km/hr 2-lane highway then accelerating to greater than 80 km/hr on a passing lane. I suspect that James annoyance actually stems from drivers who are doing 5 to 10 km/hr under the limit then speeding up in the passing lane, which happens from time to time. I imagine that drivers who do this do so because they feel comfortable going faster on the wider and clearer stretch of road, and are mostly unaware of how it delays other faster drivers. I have never seen the slamming on the brakes at the end of the passing lane that James complains about, only gentle braking. I don't particularly like it when a lack of awareness or consideration from another driver prevents me from overtaking in a situation where I otherwise could do so with safety. But it's not safe to let it affect your mood and behaviour. It adds so little extra time to the journey. I cannot support the idea of giving 6 points to a driver who speeds up in a passing lane, especially when recommended by a driver who admits he usually does 120.

I have to agree

I have driven all over North America multi millions of kms and unless it's a semi going uphill I also have almost never come across drivers going 30 to 40 km/hr under the speed limit, rarely even 10 km/hr under, the vast majority are very close to the speed limit or over. Speeders that have to slow down to the speed limit from 20 to 40 km/hr over think it's their right to speed and think people that follow the law and drive safely are under the limit, that's where that exaggeration of 30 to 40 under the limit comes from.

And 6 points for following the law? That's ridiculous in my mind as well, once a driver starts getting annoyed at other drivers they should pull off the road and look in the mirror, as they are the drivers that are the problem and the drivers that turn dangerous. If you can't stay relaxed and keep a good attitude to share the road with ALL drivers, you have no place on the road. If your late for an appointment, well then you should have left earlier, stay relaxed and accept the fact your going to be late, why risk innocent lives because you couldn't plan better and leave earlier.

Just a friendly truthful bit of advice from someone that knows better from experience.

driving the speed limit and statistics

Whoever is responsible for managing road safety in BC, should be concerned about the increasing number of people, each year, injured on BC Roads.12,000 more injured in 2013 than in 2008. No information on the 2014 and 2015 trends. With the focus on increased speed-these injuries are likey increasing. Transport Canada reports an above average fatal rate for BC drivers for 2014.

ICBC only reports leading causes of accidents as excessive speed, impaired, distracted driving. These apply only to fatal accident but they could apply to most vehicle crashes.

Nowhere  in ICBC stats is driving the speed limit noted as a contrubting factor in fatal accidents.

To reverse the injury trend on BC Roads, more enforcement is needed on excessive speed, impairment and distracted driving. Electronic monitoring of excessive speed would reduce the number of injuries,

 

Is there a Statistician in the house?

Whoever is responsible for managing road safety in BC, should be concerned about the increasing number of people, each year, injured on BC Roads.12,000 more injured in 2013 than in 2008.

It's unfortunate that so many people are injured or killed each year on our roads, (though thankfully for us, this remains one of the safest countries in the world for highway users) but the numbers need to be examined more carefully before leaping to conclusions.

If you look further into those ICBC Statistics that you're quoting from, you'll note that over the same period two other things increased steadily as well; the number of vehicles on the road (and this applies to basically all regions of the province), and the number of active BC Driver Licenses. More vehicles, more drivers.

More crashes, over all? Surprisingly, and encouragingly, no. Thanks in large part to improved driver behaviour - and probably also road improvements, is my guess - in the lower mainland and the southern interior, these have reduced from 270,000 to 260,000 annually.

And, of course, we can't just consider those injury numbers you mention. How about fatalities? Here's the facts, folks. BC road fatalities dived from 319 in 2009 to 258 in 2014 - that's right, a 19% reduction over the five year period!  I'm surprised you neglected to mention that salient fact, Phil!

So inevitably, we must look further to find out where the danger lies. Who is causing all this casualty damage?

Well it's interesting to note this:

The following age groups have experienced a net reduction in the number of active licensed drivers between 2010 & 2014: 16-19, 35-39, 40-44, 45-49.

The following age groups have remained pretty much constant in the number of active licensed drivers between 2010 & 2014: 20-24, 25-29.

The following age groups have experienced a net increase in the number of active licensed drivers between 2010 & 2014: 30-34, 50-54, 55-59, 60-64, 65-69, 70-74, 75-79, 80-84, 85+. The increase is comparatively substantive amongst the older groups, as you'll see.

Given these numbers, a good argument could be made for asking the police to focus more closely on seniors than speeders, wouldn't you say?

Canada one of the safest countries to drive????

Canada doesn't even make the top 25 list of safest countries to drive, even Japan with almost 3 and a half times our population has Canada beat hands down, UK almost double our population, Germany well over 2 times our population destroy Canada's safe driving stats.

And Fatalities in BC at it's highest number since 2012 is only 9 people under the last 5 year average, Injuries have climbed every year for 5 years straight from 2009 to 2013. 2013 had 6000 injured higher that the 5 year average and 12,000 more than in 2009.

And unfortunately as Distracted Driving has now caught up and past DUI in the last few years, and since June 2014 when the speed got raised, ( Totally Insane IMO) the stats are lacking, so no comparison can be made yet, the only stat I saw was the 46% increase in ambulance calls just in the first 3 months on the Coq after the speed was raised, so my hopes aren't too high that it actually helped, I believe we will soon find Injuries & fatalities have climbed, but opinions don't count as facts so will have to wait and see.

To claim not to focus on speeders is an uneducated response, the entire driving world sees the top 3 causes of crashes from all the experts in the field as being speeding #1, distracted driving & DUI. As speeding causes a dangerous speed differential and forces all road users to increase decisions and more decisions lead to more mistakes, (after all every human makes mistakes) it also compounds all other driving errors and increases the likely hood of death, Injury and damage, (Simple Physics) So the main focus on cause must remain on speeding especially until proper driver education & training is required to obtain a license where attitude as one of the highest subjects.

That's what I said.

We're not the safest place in the world, but relatively speaking, we're better than most. Due to your dubious disputatiousness, you choose to ignore the fact that there are 153 countries with a higher fatality rate, a good number of them with four, five, or even six times the number of fatalities per kilometers driven.

Where did you dig up your Coquihalla information?

You said

Canada is one of the safest when we don't even make the top 25 list, of course there are worse countries with much higher fatality rates, but now your comparing most of those that are 3rd world countries vs 1st world countries, hardly worth a comparison wouldn't you agree, Canada is far behind where it should be for safe roads, our fatality rate & injury rates are off the charts when you take into reality that close to 90% of all crashes are avoidable.

My Coq info came from what BC Ambulance told CTV News, here is the quote,,,,,,, "CTV News investigation in September found that ambulance calls on the Coquihalla had increased by 46 per cent in the three months that the higher speed limit had then been in place, compared to the same three months in 2013.",,,,,,,,

As why I have my doubt's raising the speed limit at this point in time in history with the social media epidemic on the rise along with drivers attitudes degrading with the "NOW" & "ME" syndrome as well, morals are no where close to where they were in 1964 when the 85th&tile was put into effect, and why it's totally INSANE to still be using that way out of date method to set speed limits in 2014-2016.

is driving the limit a concern in other Provinces?

It seem that the BC Government are on their own with their concern that driving the speed limit is a major issue in accident  causation. The Saskatchewan Government SGI list 28 contributing causes of fatal injuries on their roads.Driving the speed limit is not on the complex list of  28 contributing factors,causing fatal accidents.It's not on ICBC's list, or any other Provice's goals to prevent injuries 

The Province with the highest fatality rate, and the Province with lowest fatality rate  have the same concerns about the causes of fatal accidents . The common causes are excessive speed, impairment and distracted driving.

These are the big three safety issues that repeat on the ICBC report. It's never too late to learn from a mistake-a change in priorities is required. Driving the speed limit is only a concern  in BC-it's a misplaced concern.

Is slow driving unacceptable ?

  The road signage states Maximum Speed not Minimum Speed and drivers need to read their drivers manual , YOU SHOULD NOT EXCEED THE SPEED LIMIT TO PASS !!!! Plain and simple ! I witness that 80 % of drivers exceed the speed limits requirements for safe driving on road ways by at least 20 km above the posted speed . Frankly paying for car insurance is not very reassuring when you are dead because someone selfishly decides that their Time is Worth More that Your Life . A vehicle is a deadly weapon when operated dangerously , speed kills ....

driving the limit

I would also add that the speed limit signs that I have looked  at say "maximum". It is a bit disappointing that one  of the posters who advocates ignoring those signs has apparently instructed drivers on the rules of the road in preparation for a drivers test.Surely those who train, test and licence drivers in BC would only support the laws and rules of the road, and not be critical of " cops with radar guns"-doing their job.

Drivers from other countries , through political agreements, may not know what" maximum" means, but every driver tested and licenced on BC roads should know what speed limit signs mean.  

Explain this, please.

It is a bit disappointing that one  of the posters who advocates ignoring those signs has apparently instructed drivers on the rules of the road in preparation for a drivers test.

Where did you see someone advocating that those signs be ignored? I think you're making that up.

Surely those who train, test and licence drivers in BC would only support the laws and rules of the road, and not be critical of " cops with radar guns"-doing their job.

I certainly support the rules of the road. One of those rules supports a 120 km/h speed limit on some of our highways. That doesn't mean there aren't others who have posted here who are against it; even though it's one of the rules of the road. Curious, eh?

Certainly cops with radar guns are doing their job - one aspect of it. But the world would be a safer place - in my opinion - if they spent a whole lot more time focusing on right-of-way and other significant safety issues.

Drivers from other countries , through political agreements, may not know what" maximum" means, but every driver tested and licenced on BC roads should know what speed limit signs mean.

You must be joking. Please tell me you're joking.

No Joke -drivers following the limit are not the problem

There is little to joke about British Columbians  dying on BC roads and injuries continuing to increase. Too many drivers decide what their maximuim is and add 10,20 ,3O, 40 or more KPH. to the "maximum". The evidence is clear on this-whenever the RCMP IRU sometimes  set up radar at Cook Creek or the Malahat, many are ticketed and towed.

Why do people speed excessively, distracted, impaired-because there is littel chance of getting caught.

Electronic speed monitoting would reduce injuries and deaths, but there is much more to be done to follow up on impaired, distrcted and aggressive drivers.

I continue to be impressed that lower mainland police nabbed a distracted driver 14 times and public pressure motivated the BC government to increase penalties. Unfortunately there is not the same pressure on controlling speed, because the majority of drivers do not believe the  maximum is the maximum.Without increased enforcement ,the deaths and injuries will continue. 

Courtesy

When my Dad started teaching me how to drive, sitting beside him holding a steering wheel at about 8 years old, he always said to be courteous.  On my 16th birthday, we were parked in front of a testing station when it opened at 9 AM and I aced the test, drove Dad's car and got my "DRIVER'S LICENSE".  About 2 hours later, I was back, sitting behind a buddy on my motorcyce.  The examiner took one look and asked why I was back.  "To get my bike license ...".  "Get out of here.  I gave you your car license on your Birthday .... You're supposed to have a 'learning period', you know. Come back in 2 weeks."  I did, got my M/C endorsement and later, upgraded to what is now a Class 1 & 6. 

I also did some digging into the BC MVA and its Regs.  Yes, there it was: "KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS".  Straightforward, simple and to me, obvious.  Also, courteous.

How you want to drive your vehicle is not my concern.  If I was a Police Officer, then yes, it is .... but I'm not. Although admittedly in our modern times, if I see you driving drunk, impaired or on the cell phone, I may note your license plate, pull over and report you to 911.  Why?  Because distracted idiots have killed too many of my friends over the years.

But back on track.  If you want to treat speed limits as "suggested minimums", just a flick of the lights, I'm over and you're on your way.  No "speed regulator" here. In fact, I've probably moved over before you got to me, unless I'm stuck in "Moonbeam's traffic" like you are.  If you're prone to Road Rage, I'd far rather have you in front of me than behind.  A little self preservation ....

But how about a bit of courtesy in return?  Don't ride my bumper, shoot past and then slow down.  If I'm in the car or on the bike, I'll probably get out of your way .... but in a 70 ton loaded semi, you could end up being a bit bent.

I'm busy enough driving my own vehicle and trying to pay attention to that job.  Please do the same .....  If you want to go faster or slower, fine by me.  If you're over the speed limit, not my problem .. and, because I'm not a cop, not my concern either.

JUST DRIVE YOUR OWN VEHICLE and let me drive mine, ok?

Yes, it was a word seldom heard now ..... COURTESY!

(Thanks Dad ....)   

Being Behind

I don't know how many times I heard that someone "had to get past" the bad driver behind them. Like you, I would rather have them in front of me so that I can keep an eye on them and have some control over how far away from me they were.

Good post, Hawk!

We're on the same page, I think.

Like you, I've been trying to stay out of the way of troublesome drivers for years now. Courtesy is far more effective than aggression.

Besides, it makes you feel better and have a nice day!

Courtesy

   Courtesy is driving within the rules of the road , turning a blind eye is not the answer to road safety , the emphasis on Safety . Just because they are in front of you doesn't make the road safe for other people !

raised speed limits raised crashes

Interesting article on BC speed limits and crashes in the June 28th Gobe and Mail.

 The article  notes that speed limits were increased on some BC roads against the recommendation of some health officals and police. Although all the data from ICBC is unavailable, it appears that the Police and concerned health officials were right in their concern. If some of the data was left out of the analysis, this would seem less than transparent, and misleading, if the crash rate was even higher than 11%.

Raising speed limits and targetting driver ,driving the limit was a msitake which has increased crashes on all BC roads.

Tarek Sayed ,a professor of civil engineering at UBC states that raising speed limits had a measurable impact.

As the NDP opposition critics states-why were speed limits raised-there has not been a big push for increased speed limits?

The Opposition has been mostly asleep on the issue -they need to press the government to adress excess speed and distraced and impaired driving. Rolling back limits would be an easy step.

It seesm that this article is an unbaised assessment of the speed issue on BC Roads.

It's  clear that the Minister of Transportation has made a serious mistake-when will the Premier correct this?

Actually ...

... the article I read had this to say:

Speed limits were increased on 1,300 km of rural provincial highways in the Southern Interior, Vancouver Island and the Lower Mainland two years ago. On some highways, including the Coquihalla — from Hope to Kamloops — motorists can drive up to 120 km/h.

New data released by the B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure shows crash rates have dropped, or are unchanged, on 19 of 33 sections of highway. The Coquihalla continues to see the lowest crash rate in the last 10 years, according to the province.

The ministry’s analysis, which compares crash data from Nov. 1, 2014 to Oct. 31, 2015 with crash data from the previous three years, notes that on seven sections, the rate of speed and crashes decreased, while on 12 sections, the rate of speed increased but crashes went down. The Trans Canada Highway from Cache Creek to Kamloops, for instance, saw a boost in speed limits but fewer crashes, while Highway 1 from Abbotsford to Chilliwack saw more collisions.

So overall, the raise in speed limits has proven positive.

And they're tackling the issues where this has not been the case.

Crash stats moved to slow driving I see.

First with the news articles, they are very deceiving to uneducated drivers, for example this comment,,,,,,,, " Between Nov. 1, 2014 and Oct. 31, 2015, 28 per cent of all crashes in these areas were primarily caused by distracted driving, while driving faster than the posted speed limit was a contributing factor in just two per cent of crashes. "

They leave out the first 4 summer months of data which by the way are the busiest 4 months of the year which flaws that data, especially when comparing it to the previous 3 years, it helps make it one sided to try and justify their initial decision to raise speeds.

Meanwhile many crashes could well be at 120 km/hr, the direct result of increased speed limits, but what they fail to make clear to the public that don't know any better, they make the claim only 2% of the crashes were over the 120 km/hr posted speed, (That proof I would sure like to see, but regardless) Yet at 120 km/hr or less can still be speeding as the cause of the crash if conditions weren't Ideal, and in BC we all know conditions are more often than not less than Ideal, so that entire claim is Irrelevant. I see every time it's even raining hard, never mind even worse conditions, many drivers still driving 120 km/hr or faster, so yes they are speeding, but sure, they might be at the 120 km/hr posted limit.

Then this miss leading claim,,,,,,, " Coquihalla continues to see the lowest crash rate in the last 10 years, according to the province.",,,,,,,,, They paint a picture to deceive, even if the crash numbers have come down in 10 years, the Fact remains that the Coquihalla is 3rd of the 12 deadliest Hwy's in all of BC, so don't get a false sense of security trying to be fed to you by the government.

Then once again they claim,,,,,,, "crash rates have dropped, or are unchanged, on 19 of 33 sections of highway. ",,,,,,,,, But again comparing a full 3 years of previous data against data missing the busiest 4 months of summer data from 2014, Who would but stocks if the stock market was rigged this way to deceive you of the actual facts, only share the good news & delete the bad news.

The only sure facts so far is that in BC, crashes have Increased, and in all likely hood, by 11%, I doubt by adding 4 months of Summer 2014 will bring that figure down, chances are almost certain even that number will rise.

Further to my "Courtesy" post

This thread started out as a discussion about "slow driving" but it seems to have drifted to, "What I do is ok."  Indeed, isn't this part of the problem?

Speed is easily measured and has become a major revenue source especially in the US where money goes to the local communities. Unfortunately speed is only one factor of many. Traffic volumne, weather, road surface, tire and suspension conditions, driver fatique, distractions, etc. all contribute to the "safety" at any given speed.

Most crashes are due to the driver not being in control of the vehicle. Driving too fast for the conditions, or whatever.  But "speed" is the measureable factor .... so it is blamed and touted as the demon.

Our Provincial Highways Ministry is again spending more money on high-tech Variable Speed Limit signs.  Why?  More nanny laws for those incompetent drivers who think that 120 kph on sheet ice is ok "because the sign said so"?  Maybe the same mentality as those who follow their GPS into a Goat track "because it said it was shorter"?  Sorry, but we haven't found answers for stupidity yet.

Back in the day, I used to do some competition driving.  A bit of racing but more rally driving.  I may have pounded the suspension, but I never hit anything nor bent the car.  But yes, I did "speed" ... Oh my!  And a lot of it was on ice, snow and gravel.

But back on track about "slow driving".  You may have very good reasons for driving slower than the mainstream traffic, I don't know and usually don't care.  If you persist in driving in the left lanes, blocking others and inciting Road Rage, you are a danger to me and every other person out there. KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS. Simple, straightforward and courteous!

I'll let you drive your vehicle.  Please let me drive mine.

Minister Stone speaks.

In the CBC News website article “Province lowers speed limits on 2 highways after 11% jump in serious collisions” Minister of Transportation Todd Stone was quoted as follows:

"We are going to undertake on each and every one of those 14 segments of highway to first and foremost employ as many additional engineering initiatives and strategies as possible to keep the collision rate down."

Where are the language police? The Minister’s 35 word sentence has four redundancies, three of which are a cliché. Also “possible” implies that there are no time or cost limits. What should he have said? I suggest the following 16 word sentence.

"We will use all feasible engineering to reduce collisions on each of the 14 highway segments."

incompetent drivers

I agree with Hawk on incompetant drivers I have friends who could and can drive fast.They have the skills and abilities to do so.

Unfortunately, there are many drivers who can't anticipate changing  road conditions, traffic situations or recognize their limitations while driving at excessive speed or impaired or distracted.

I would prefer a nanny state of electronic monitoring, than being taken out by an incompetent driver, going much faster than the ability to control the vehicle.

Electronic monitoring is not a silver bullet, but it would help adress some of the incompetent drivers on on BC roads..

Competent drivers and electronic monitoring

There are drivers out there who can drive fast and do it competently, but they belong to a very small minority.  (The rest of us just think we can drive better than we actually can.)  But if they exceed the speed limit just because they can, then they are breaking the law, and therefore no longer competent.  Keeping speeds under control by electronic monitoring is by far the cheapest and most effective method of lowering the death and injury rates, but neither of the two main political parties will touch it with a ten foot pole.  They are more interested in getting votes  or money, from vested interests than doing the right thing.  A very sad commentary on the state of our political syatem.

Happy Canada Day Tim

I see you are "working " on Canada Day as likely you did few times as an RCMP officer. Doing the mostly unpopular,sometimes difficult job of educating drivers. It seem even a more challenging job today with those who think it is their right to exceed the maximum by significant speed and text  while in control of a car or truck.

Thanks for keeping the posts going.Thanks for the service. We live in a wonderfull country -"we" should be doing better at preventing crashes on BC roads.

As you mentioned, there are likely some decision makers and policy makers who monitor your site.Hopefully they are getting the picture on what needs to be done on BC roads to reduce injuries.

Is slow driving unacceptable ?

  First of all increased speed limits are ridiculous , get a plane if you need to drive that fast ! What's unacceptable is driving over the speed limit ! I don't care how talented a driver you are , go to the race track and get it out of your system Then drive on the road with the responsiblity of every one else's life  who is on the road on your shoulders ! More fines and driving suspensions should be in force .

Good to see some intelligent comments

Too bad the majority of drivers couldn't see the truth as clear as they do. It's amazing and true that drivers that think they can drive fast safely are actually some of the worst drivers out there on our roads. Their incorrect attitude thinking they are superior drivers is what makes them dangerous, even if in fact their abilities might be better than some other drivers. 

Funny enough is the true professionals, and real race car drivers that can handle higher speeds on the track, are the same drivers that follow all the laws to the best of their ability on public roads. It's their attitudes that allow them to stay calm and "Share" the road with drivers of All Abilities. That's what's missing in speeders attitudes, they allow themselves to get angry with drivers that don't meet up to what they think is correct, they get mad and then turn aggressive all while thinking they are the good drivers, when in fact now they are some of the worst.

You will notice on the new stats out, even though they use the out of date 85th%tile, in every zone measured, the majority of drivers are still above the posted speed limit, even in the 120 km/hr zones, proving most drivers are bad drivers, and even with that proof and the fact distracted driving has reached #2 in causes of crashes, the government has chosen to stay with the higher speed limits even with the overall increase in crashes, using the places with no increase as justification,,,, Very Sad.

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I come from Ontario and absolutely everyone knows to drive in the right lane unless they are passing, or making a left hand turn, or the city is just busy. But the article pretty much said 'yea buts it's okay to drive in the passing lane'.

We are expanding a highway even and I know it will help but the problem likely would not exist if people just got out of the way of passing vehicles. While it's rather bothersome I've also come to realize it's the cause of congestion to a significant degree and that needs to be made clear to drivers. I don't know how they don't notice. Particularly in kelowna. Traffic flow slows so much because ignorant drivers. I've seen this escalate situations amongst several sets of drivers and causing road rage. The solution is so simple.

If you not turning or passing, get in the right lane. - the message needs to be that clear and blunt I'm sure to get through to the ones who can't read the traffic signs.

Even, and perhaps especially in the city. I don't know if the signs are not big or bright enough. If people can't read, or there needs to be more of them. Or if driving schools don't teach this. Regardless, I'm strongly urging drivesmart bc to run an article or make signs more apparent and brighter. Even encourage police to pull over folks impeding traffic. I should say it's also dangerous especially when someone is going the speed limit or under in the passing lane -oblivious to the world. I would hazard to guess if you ran a poll this would be at least 60% of road rage frustration.

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