News Item: Ontario introducing $50,000 fines for careless drivers causing death (Globe and Mail, September 20, 2017).
Bill 158, Protecting Vulnerable Road Users Act, 2017 will implement significant consequences for drivers who break the listed rules and cause serious injury or death. The penalties include a mandatory probation order that will require the driver to take a driving instruction course and perform community service. The community service must include activity related to improving driving safety and public education on driving safety. Their driver’s licence will be suspended during the probation.
The driver must also attend the sentencing hearing where victim impact statements may be presented.
Other provinces often enact similar legislation. Do you think that B.C. will follow suit?
According to one person that I have spoken with recently within the Ministry of Justice, road safety concerns are in the top three issues reported to municipalities each year. It may have been a rhetorical question, but the person wondered why this never seems to change.
I have also been told that you run more risk of death or serious injury through the operation of a motor vehicle than you do from all other criminal acts combined. According to the Coroner's Service, collisions are the leading cause of death for B.C. youth.
So, why is it so easy to "safely" ignore the traffic rules and fail to extend common courtesy to other road users when it suits us?
Driving is something that almost all of us do every day and many of us have been doing it for a long time. We're biased to believe that we are experts and collisions are something that happen to someone else.
It's easy to let little liberties with the rules become normal behaviour.
Just for fun, hands up those of you who have not been directly affected by a collision in the past year. Everyone that raised their hand should now go out to their vehicles, open their glove boxes and get out their insurance documents. How much did you pay ICBC last year? About 80% of what ICBC collects is paid out directly to mitigate damages from collisions.
Now try to tell me that you haven't been affected by a collision lately.
Speaking of ICBC, insurance insulates us from the damage that we cause as a driver. A relatively small sum paid every year protects us from the possibility of having to pay millions of dollars. In fact, if we don't have a collision over a 10 year period, we don't even suffer an increase in premiums if someone makes a damage claim against us.
No one, except possibly the victim, is interested in "minor" collisions anymore. You haven't been required to report a collision to the police since July 1, 2008. Chances are, if you are in a large community the fire department is the agency that will attend to your fender bender. Firefighters neither investigate collisions nor issue tickets for violations. I would contend that the police are responsible for traffic safety and should be there.
If the chance of receiving a traffic ticket for a collision is small, how is RoadSafetyBC to know that remedial action is necessary for an errant driver? The Driver Improvement Program is based on the accumulation of penalty points.
Even an active police presence may not be a deterrent. I used to watch drivers who passed my lit up police vehicle while I was busy writing a ticket. It was not uncommon to see an approaching vehicle slow to the speed limit to pass and be exceeding the limit again before they were out of sight.
While Ontario's new law may make the victims feel as if more attention is being paid to their loss I doubt that it will make a significant change to driving behaviour. We need to want to follow the law, maintain or improve our driving skills and fear the possiblity of an appropriate penalty when we deliberately choose to be disrespectful of fellow road users.
First of all what makes you think that I don't Drive Respectfully? I don't live in BC, although I did live in Sparwood for about a year, yet at some point this coming spring I will be moving to Kelowna.
I live in Winnipeg with 500,000 of the worst drivers in canada.
I've been driving 52 years, drove commercially, have a full merit licence and only one accident during that time and it wasn't my fault. I miss accidents daily, I'm courtious to other drivers and pedestrians. I'm not saying I'm a perfect driver, I have my faults and try not to slip into bad driving habits especially since I have my grand daughter in my car twice a day, usually during rush hour.
In my early twenties I was a tow truck driver, I've seen more than my share of death and destruction.
I'm not sure what law makers are thinking in Ontario and other locals, having a $50000 fine will not deter bad drivers, they will continue to drive thinking this will never happen to me.
Sadly I concur with you, Tim. It seems that nothing has worked to get us off the cell phones, gadgets and every distraction in the book ... and pay attention to our driving.
I remember a very good friend, Bob McLean who was a race driver. In fact, he took the "Under 2 liter" championship for Canada in 1965. On the road, he scared the be-jeez out of me .... unless he was going fast. At 30 MPH, I was terrified! I was using my car as a tow car for the team .... and I never let Bob drive it! A great loss was when, in 1966 Bob was driving a GT-40 for Ford at Sebring. A suspension member broke and he didn't survive.
But to the present - My firm beliefe is that the self-drive vehicle will be our salvation. Sad as that is because I and I'm sure many of you have enjoyed a lifetime of driving. A pleasurable experience and somewhat theraputic. I'm appalled at the attitude of some people who's only concern about a crash is the effect on their insurance premium .... not a thought about the fact that they screwed up! Or hurt someone.
Thankfully I'm old enough that I won't see much of those "self-drivers" and I can still remember the days of "courtesy".
I think they are a long way off. How are they going to work on mountain highways? How are they going to make out when they hit black ice? How about travelling that industrial road? Are they going to recognize that soft shoulder that will pull them into a ditch?
Just too many variables. Southern freeways sure, northern roads???
"I have also been told that you run more risk of death or serious injury through the operation of a motor vehicle than you do from all other criminal acts combined. According to the Coroner's Service, collisions are the leading cause of death for B.C. youth."
Any yet the second someone says that lane filtering is 6x safer for motorcyclists, and there is no logical reason to not be implementing it as a legal, encouraged solution for motorcyclists to be more accountable for our own safety, we're told to go get stuffed...
"Safety".... Uh huh....
Luftwaffen, When I started riding (1952) it was no big deal to ride around or between cars at a stop light. Cars were perhaps 3,000 lbs. and about 100 HP. When the light changed, we were halfway to the next light before the cars got across the intersection. No, it wasn't "legal" but nobody really cared.
It was an RCMP friend of mine that took the issue of "Lane splitting" to the BCCOM and their research produced most of the arguements in favour. But it was defeated. Later, it was reincarnated as "Lane filtering".
A few years back, I spoke face to face with Todd Stone who told me that he would never agree to Lane Splitting nor Lane Filtering for one major reason. That reason was that it would appear to benefit "Bikers" and would incite Road Rage because "they have something that I can't have". Also, how do you educate the motoring public that such a practise is "legal"?
Then there was that thorny issue of Political Suicide.
Mobility issues have ended my riding days but not until 64 years of a great, but cruel, sport.
Also, how do you educate the motoring public that such a practise is "legal"?
ICBC Youtube/TV ads, roadside signs along arterial, multi lane roads (See pic below:)
"That reason was that it would appear to benefit "Bikers" and would incite Road Rage because "they have something that I can't have""
And most automobiles have a safety cage, climate control, radio, coffee holders, cruise control... Its not fair!
When the facts are laid bare, the answer is obvious. Our roads are a serious and potentially deadly place, it is in the best interests of all road users to maximize the safety potential for all road users. This specifically includes motorcycles. If drivers have a hard time dealing with allowing a vehicle that can easily fit without inconveniencing anyone... Maybe they shouldn't have a license?
Our entire licensing process as far as i'm concerned is a farce.
I WILL NOT be going to the hospital because I followed a rule that was the antithesis to how a I value my safety and well being on the road. Whether I ACTUALLY filter or not, I ALWAYS place myself ready to shoot between cars if I even have the slightest doubt about the next 3-4 cars behind me (Which is often, let me tell you) I filter. I'm not sticking around to wake up in the back of an ambulance being told i'll never walk again.
I genuinely, really don't think that legislating filtering in accordance with the rules that BCCOM will be submitting to an MLA at some point will be a big deal. The first few months people might get excited, but once they realize that all we're trying to do is look after our own safety in the sea of distracted drivers, how mad can you be? Especially if the government releases a halfway thought out public awareness campaign, laying the facts bare... It isn't really possible to argue with them... Or atleast I haven't seen an argument that holds water yet, other than making excuses for poor driving habits and enciting nanny state logic. The facts are the facts, and if the government sticks with them and pushes the facts first and foremost... Please, try and argue against them, I'd be genuinely interested to see someone do that.
How is it that the Aussie government can look at the exact studies we have available to us here in BC and come to the conclusion that it is up to 6x SAFER for riders, and then start legalizing it across the entire country because of it? Something is wrong with our whole outlook on "Sharing the road"... LOL.
Luftwaffen, I may not have been clear. I'm not against lane splitting nor filtering. I was stating what I heard from Todd Stone without my personal opinion.
I've done it often in my younger days and still believe it to be a life-saver. I also believe that the distracted driver, no matter what the distraction, is the greatest danger to all of us.
Hawk, sorry if I came off as attacking yourself, I was going after the usual drivvel that comes out of the Ministries mouth.
It gets really old hearing the same old justifications over and over again, ignoring the fact that the government has no problem putting hundreds of millions of dollars just on upgrading intersections on the island creating more congestion until the project is done, when a tiny fraction of that in Youtube ads and roadside signs, and the electronic billboards on Hwy 1 would probably be quite adequate.
Just today there was ANOTHER large pileup on the Port Mann bridge, the drivers in this province get less and less of my trust with each day that goes by. I question any rider that doesn't believe that filtering presents the lesser of two evils. (Not saying you are... or rather were Hawk) I'd call anyone who doesn't believe filtering to be the greatest missing piece of road user safety for riders idiots.
Car manufacturers can't release a 4 wheeled car with-out a mandatory airbag, yet motorcycles that are 15-16 times likelier to crash are OK?
Past year I've seen complete and utter inconsideration by motorcyclists to traffic, speed limits, lines and stop signs. I regularly see motorcycles driving 50km/h along stopped traffic in the BICYCLE lane.
I say get rid of them, no more motorcycle licenses. But thats just my opinion.
You know what? Why don’t we ban automobiles while we’re at it? That way everyone can make it to the ripe old age of 100 without experiencing anything dangerous or exciting at all!
Authoritarianism was never put so simply. We should force everyone to drive certain types of vehicles so we can do away with that annoying “freedom of choice” thing! Was anyone inconvenienced or put in danger while those riders were riding in the bike lane? Did you see what happened at the back of the line? Maybe they just got away from being killed in a rear end collision?
I see a far higher ratio of car drivers being knobs than riders. Now we both have opposing personal anecdotes! At least motorcycle riders have plates, insurance and helmets.
The opportunity to pay more than just lip service to “sharing the road” is there and the idea gets pissed on... way to go BC, showing our true colours as a driving culture here.
I just came back from a two week trip to Toronto, I saw more confident drivers who have real business being on the roads than I saw in Vancouver in the past 3 years. We are so coddled here, 90% of people don't know what they are doing. Its as if somebody is forcing them to be on the roads. There, people are actually going places, here most are driving in packs of sheep kissing each others bumpers in rolling road-blocks on our highways.
Dangerous and exciting is exactly whats going on here everyday. LA, Toronto and I'm guessing most large cities all over the world have no time to dilly dally about every little thing people are doing while piloting their conveyances. One major thing that highlights the absurdity of some of the laws - East Coast - U-turns at traffic lights intersections are OK - here its a big sin. In the end it makes no real difference.
I have no problem with the freedom of choice, I'm free to choose to not stick a rocket in my crotch and imagine myself a superman.
In the end I think it won't make any appreciable difference to the big picture if motorcycles were banned or if lane splitting was allowed and if helmets were optional. There are jurisdictions that allow splitting and some even have no helmet laws - as long as we just care about each other on the roads we can happily share the space. And I mean truly care - I drive to allow people to get places - not to seek out angry confrontations over every little unexpected lane change; what about you sir? Are you one of the bikers who enjoys giving lectures to motorists about shoulder checking when you've almost got your life ended when riding up on some one at 90km/h in a 50 zone?
Major problem here, I gather, is Xanax, otherwise how else do you explain the kind of inept, disinterested, blind, automaton zombies that plague our highways here? Its mind boggling!
"I just came back from a two week trip to Toronto, I saw more confident drivers who have real business being on the roads than I saw in Vancouver in the past 3 years."
I was in Toronto for around 10 days last year and I thought the exact opposite. I've never seen so many people blatantly forcing themselves in lane changes with <10ft of bumper space going at 120kph+, even comparing with Vancouver. The volume also puts Vancouver to shame.
"LA, Toronto and I'm guessing most large cities all over the world have no time to dilly dally about every little thing people are doing while piloting their conveyances."
Funnily enough, those two places have more people sitting in traffic "dilly dallying" their lives away than all of Metro Vancouver. The difference being that in one of them, if you're capable and willing to do so you can ride a motorcycle and never have to sit in traffic again. I wonder how much stress relief that is, to KNOW for a fact that your commute will take... say 30mins... regardless of what traffic is doing. Powerful stuff.
I know that I probably had one of the lower stress commutes out of everyone I knew who had to go farther than 2 municipalities in Metro Van, simply because no matter what the law says, traffic is only ever optional on a motorcycle.
An effective way to make drivers more responsible is to pass a law that requires every vehicle to be equipped with a Black Box device that:
1. prevents the vehicle from being operated unless the identity of the driver is verified by an eye scan or finger print, and
2, records the date, time and vehicle speed, and videos both the driver and the direction of travel of the vehicle (using cabin and dash cameras).
The law would allow authorities to review the vehicle data and videos after an accident and before renewing the vehicle insurance.
We have the technology to build a Black Box for vehicles, but will lawmakers pass such a law? I doubt it will be passed anytime soon.
Don't know what all is recorded but anything after 2000 has a black box and it does record a fair amount of detail.
Moderator probably can add more on this and I do know that some convictions have been made using the stored data.
I sure wish everyone had to retest every 10 years or so. It would force people to go back and look at the basics and the extras.
People do their test in their teens, (while the brain is still evolving) and I am sure many just squeak through, and once they have their license...there is no incentive to improve. If there are no skilled drivers to mentor them, it would seem that many drivers fail to improve their skills. Things like poor judgement, lack of road management, and less than optimum levels of courtesy become the habit. My observation is that a lot of drivers carry on like they are rockstars, when in fact they are deplorable. Why retest people just because they are seniors?
They should have been checked along the way.
At least ONCE since they got their license.
Just so you don't think I'm some easy chair Mario Andretti, shooting my mouth off, I'll say this. I got my 1A in Saskatchewan when I was 19. I'd been riding with my dad every chance I could, since I was like 6 years old. He was smooooth.
After getting my license, I drove a lot for him. After a couple years I took a PDIC (professional driver improvement course) and later on I went through the course to get a LCV endorsement (pulling two 53 foot trailers) in Alberta. I was in my 30's when I went to NAIT and passed the test for Air Brake Instructor, and then class 1 instructor. I have had my own trucks most of my life, so it's not like I had to get this other stuff, I wanted to. A side note to all that is, last year I entered in the BC Provincial Truck Driving Championships, and took 1st place in the Super B Train class, the top category. ( I hope this doesn't come across as bragging, it is what it is.) I guess what I'm saying is, I enjoy challenges, and I am always looking to improve my skills. I'm happy to test those skills, and BE tested on them. I'm confident in my abilities, and 2.5 million accident free miles reflect that.
It's like getting your Journeyman mechanics ticket. If you feel that you can stop learning cause you know it all now....well...you are a sorry individual. That ticket merely shows your ability to meet that level. That doesn't make a great mechanic. It's experience and schooling (and testing) that produce a great mechanic.
Anyhow...that's my rant.
Going back a few years the original intentions of the 5 year licence was that you would be re-tested. I remember my parents having to go in for a drivers test probably about 1950. Both had their licences from the 1920's. And I think this was the 2nd. test after bringing in the 5 yr renewal.
I got my own licence in 1956 at the age of 16. My original road test was with the RCMP, wrote the exam at the government agents office then over to the police statiion for the road test. Almost a year after I got my licence was called in for the Official test by the B.C. government licence inspector and had to go back in for a re-test in 1961. That was the last time I have ever been tested.
I have also had what is now called a Class 1 since 1 week after getting my licence.
One sees a lot of whinning and crying over the poor quality of drivers. I don't know how many times I have had it pointed out to me that a licence is a privlidge not a right, just don't suggest that they improve the quality of driving instruction and requirements for passing that testing. Then the next thing you hear "I can't afford that".
If I had my way everyone would have to take a course on handling skids and high speed driving. Lets have people out there that know how to control a vehicle not just point it down the road.
I throw a lot of the problems at the Provincial government and ICBC. There is no reason that anyone should be getting a licence in western Canada that is not fluent in English. If you can't read, write, and understand the main language of the area how are you expected to understand the road signs other than the universal basics? "Do they know what "ACCIDENT AHEAD" means or the scrolling overhead signs?
No first hand knowledge on this but a friend took his grandkid in for the road test. Says he was only gone for about 15 minutes never had to park on anything. Distance travelled 14K and that I confirmed with the boy. So much for testing.
And going back to my pet peeve when are the cops going to start to enforce the MVA? There is far more than the 4 or 5 issues that are predominantly hit. Go through the statistics and see what percentage is devoted to other sections.
And that is the main problem no one wants to learn more than the basics to get by. Number of years one has driven has no bearing on the quality of driving, what type of roads have you driven on and where? How many times have you taken courses to improve your skills?
I had to sit on the fence for a few days on this one. While $50k seems ridiculously high, I am a strong believer in punishment. I think it should be more geared to confiscating their vehicles. Take their toy (weapon) away, I think, makes them reflect a little more. The rich kid whose parents indulge and are bad parents would consider this pocket change and I doubt any consequence would change their attitude. If they’re repeat offenders then sell their vehicles like drug assets. It has been my experience as Operation Red Nose volunteer that it is without a doubt that the service is used because people get their vehicles home with them, it’s a real “personal” item and it can be a very powerful tool to learn it’s a privilege.
And I’m with James on the bizarre testing (written or otherwise) being completed in any other language then Canada’s Official languages. It makes me very uncomfortable to know the testing was done in some foreign language and all our road signs/info is NOT in this foreign language - so how do they “read” and operate their vehicles if they can’t read/interpret/manage/maneuver this complicated process?
I'm going to throw in my two cents' worth - and ask that folks take this post with a sense of humour, as it isn't meant to attack anyone, even if it questions their various inputs.
OK then, let's first go after our fearless leader, site host and inspiration here - Tim the DriveSmartBC guy. It just ain't right to imply that any of us don't drive respectfully. As MyHome remarked: 'First of all what makes you think that I don't Drive Respectfully?' Respect, for other human beings - in this case, other road users (may be loosely defined as 'traffic' I think) can certainly vary; but it's my belief that the majority of participants to this web site do, in fact, drive respectfully.
Meanwhile, Hawk brings up Autonomous cars as a solution. Can't agree with that, I'm afraid; machines, computers, whatever you want to call them - well, they may be competent in certain tasks, but judgment and respect are human characteristics. Furthermore, as James_O points out, their ability to deal with various low-grip scenarios (as well as other real world road conflict issues that we all encounter) is still in its infancy.
And then there's Luftwaffen, who really doesn't attempt in any real way to address the subject of this thread, but leaps back into the dialogue banging on his favourite drum, i.e. 'Lane Filtering' and why he thinks this should be allowed by motorcyclists. I'll tell you what, I was just in England and Ireland last month, and I saw this so-called lane filtering in action - including on Tower Bridge and London Bridge; between the cyclists on the nearside, and the motorcyclists and scooter riders on the offside, it has become overwhelmingly difficult for the drivers of large vehicles such as buses to deal with the urban environment there - crashes have become the consequences of this behaviour, and motorcyclists who actually had experience in operating buses and trucks wouldn't dream of supporting the idea.
Then we have DavidP, who - oddly enough - seems to think that electronic monitoring of how a vehicle is operated should be some kind of determinant of respectfulness. A weird concept, if you ask me. I'll tell you this, DavidP - each and every day that I'm on the road, it seems, some disrespectful pedestrian will walk into the path of my vehicle as I'm about to turn a corner - even though their traffic control device has told them 'Don't Walk'. So each and every day, I make a decision not to use my vehicle as a weapon against them (which is not to say that the occasional tap on my horn, or perhaps even the expression on my face - or forefinger - doesn't take place). But the disrespect for other road users commences with those same pedestrians, and all the black boxes in the world aren't going to fix anything unless they start using facial recognition to ticket them for their illegal, and disrespectful, behaviour.
Note to James_C - I would definitely like to exchange views on licensing with you, but in a separate thread. We have a lot in common, with regard to our mutual experiences; although I'm of a different viewpoint in many respects.
As for other's comments on the absurd idea that a person has to be fluent in English in order to drive a car - or take a Knowledge Test or Practical Test in order to demonstrate their capacity to manage this successfully and safely - I can only tell you that the tasks are mutually exclusive. But if you think that it might help to improve those theoretical 'Accident Ahead' scrolling signs, then they should surely be in French, also? - like when they tell you how to wear your seatbelt on an Air Canada jet? I don't know about this myself, being as I've never even seen a sign, any time, in any country, advising me that this situation has suddenly occurred somewhere in front of me. I think this is all in your imagination.
OK, critical so-and-so as I am at times, permit me to share a couple of random thoughts from my own mind - so to speak.
My house is located on the corner of two reasonably busy arterial streets, with a 4-Way Stop in effect there. One day this summer, I was outside pulling up the dandelions from the boulevard, and I witnessed a man and his two kids riding their bicycles, about to turn left. The father called out to his young son and daughter that they should 'watch out - we may have to stop - check for cars on the other street'. Hmmm. So that's how this father is instructing his kids about behaving in traffic, and the sense of responsibility and respect for the rules that he's conveying to them? Just freaking scary, to my mind - how do you suppose those children will behave as pedestrians, as drivers, if they've already been taught that they have no responsibility to follow fundamental rules such as actually stopping at Stop signs?
Yet meanwhile, at another 4-Way Stop just two blocks east on the same road that I live on, I recently arrived just as two seniors on bicycles were on the cross-street; the gentleman was ahead, and at the intersection early enough that he crossed my path as I was still completing my stop. His wife (could have been his secret lover, I suppose, but didn't seem probable) was a bit behind. Rather than 'take my right of way' by proceeding, I smiled at her and inclined my head to the left to indicate that she could continue through the intersection without having to stop. Wow! I actually approved and even encouraged totally illegal behaviour, there. Oddly enough, I think we all felt good about it.
Respectfully, that's my submission for this thread.
"I'll tell you what, I was just in England and Ireland last month, and I saw this so-called lane filtering in action - including on Tower Bridge and London Bridge; between the cyclists on the nearside, and the motorcyclists and scooter riders on the offside, it has become overwhelmingly difficult for the drivers of large vehicles such as buses to deal with the urban environment there - crashes have become the consequences of this behaviour, and motorcyclists who actually had experience in operating buses and trucks wouldn't dream of supporting the idea."
And i've had multiple family members (not myself unfortunately) who've gone to, and some even driven in the UK and none of them had any problems with bikes. They actually thought it made sense and was quite natural in the overall traffic picture.
So sure about how confident and safe of a driver you are? What's your point? You're clearly scared and against something you don't understand, done by people who you dont seem able to understand. Is it really so hard to understand that my choices as a vulnerable road user are: Sit in line and potentially be squished between 4+tonnes of vehicles, or potentially have someone make a lane change into me, or open their door into me. Which would you honestly rather have happen?
Atleast in a filtering incident the collision should happen at an oblique angle, unlike a direct front to rear collision. Your spine would thank you if you were involved in the former over the latter. I will not be finding out about the consequences of sitting in line and being struck directly front to rear. That is insanity, law be damned.
Do you run into the brick wall as fast as you feel comfortable and confident going? Or do you let the fully laden, 5,00lbs dumpster bin smash into you from behind? Choose quickly! Your life is in your hands.
See, I understand and respect the average road users' complaints about the practice, I just also know that the arguments dont hold water. At all.
Competent Driving in BC
I spend a lot of my time driving on the Trans Canada and #5 between Alberta and Vancouver.
"ACCIDENT AHEAD" signs are used especially along the stretch from the Alberta border to Kamloops. I have also seen a few on the Coq. These are not scrolling signs but portable signs the same as "Flagperson Ahead" etc.
As for the scrolling signs being in both languages. Parks Canada have replaced a lot of their overhead signs and it is a great improvement. But one thing I have noticed is short messages in both languages no problem. Long messages there are times I have found that when one is close enough to read and they are just finishing the English version by time it scrolls through the French that you may not be able to get the entire message before you are past. I actually would prefer to see them put up two signs one English and one French, unfortunately that is not financially prudent considering the small population of French only speakers in western Canada.
Outside of the parks they are only in English. These signs can be programmed to display anything the department wants and are used to advise of situations ahead such as White out conditions, Water pooling on road, Watch for potholes, Heavy fog and snow, Forest Fires in area, watch for heavy smoke, etc. Of course one can tune to the FM radio frequency used in the various locations throughout the province but again these messages are only in English and unfortunately if you cannot understand English the warnings are of little use.
Within the National Parks all roadside signs are in both official languages. One of these days I am going to stop and measure the height of the lettering since you brought this up. The letters are definitely smaller and I now question if they are of size. Got me curious.
I didn't take your post as an attack but as the way I read that one paragraph it left me with the impression that you had never seen any of these signs and did question if they existed. Just wanted to clarify they do. In fact I think I saw the "ACCIDENT AHEAD" signs in the TV program "Highway through Hell".
That was informative - and it's clearly been too many years since I drove those highways, I used to be back and forth from Alberta or the Interior all the time.
Thanks again for taking the time, I hadn't realized the technology had been pushed this far.